8-48 Dietrich Sport Sedan

Here is a photoshopped depiction of the direction I'm going in.  I'm not thrilled with the fender color but it is close to original so I'm going to leave it alone.  Painted side mount covers, removal of accessory trunk,  black wall tires.

Here is the car in the 1960s while owned by Max Hamilton

A. J., I think your photoshop of what it will look like is stunning! Are you planning on removing the luggage rack and the trunk? Are these for sale? I agree that the trunk detracts from the 'look'. I think I like the black walls and I now see what you were saying about 'painting the side mount covers. I kept thinking your were planning on painting ALL of the side mount, including the chrome part around the tread.

John, I gave the trunk and rack to a friend who has a T speedster.

You gave away the REO trunk and REO rack to go on a FORD Model T???????? What a waste!

A.J.:

Though I said it before, I will never get tired of saying it. Your Reo has to be the nicest club sedan ever. Gorgeous lines! Congratulations!

The blackwalls and sidemount with chrome and paint, as were most of them, looks great!

victor

John,

I will take some pictures and post them. If the trunk and rack are REO specific then somebody with a REO can have them. I'll have to let my friend know.

Victor, I think I mentioned we have never owned a sedan before. My dad was not on board at first but has come around now that he has seen the car in person. I think the greatest club sedan would be the Duesenberg 20 Grand which has a Rollston body, followed by the later Dietrich bodied Packards. After that I agree this is the next one in the list!

A. J., what you do with those parts is your business. I was just giving you a hard time.

I do think the trunk and rack are REO items, but if you promised them I would let it stand.

I think both are beautiful cars. It is like saying you love one of your kids more than another.

John

Here is the car without the trunk rack or trunk.

I also took of the CCCA badge (I'm a big fan of the CCCA too!) and the trippe lights.   I'm really like the lines of the nose and the extra lights were confusing things.

A J, I would be interested in the trippe lights if they come up for sale.

Here is a picture of the 845 Packard with the duplicate body. The wheelbase is 3 inches shorter and I think the difference is in the cowl.   There were three on the Packard chassis and one was famously in the Harrah collection for years.  One was just at Pebble Beach recently where it was a class winner.

Here is an interior shot of the Packard.  The Reo probably had the same interior but covered in doe-skin.  I'm going to leave the current interior alone as it is in good condition and the 40k or so it would take to refinish it to original will need to wait for the full restoration.

It looks remarkably similiar to the REO. Note the luggage rack in the back. Was it a '31 also? John

John, bodies are practically identical. The only differences I can see is the molding on the cowl to match the two different marques. I did notice the trunk rack! However, the picture/drawing of the Reo from 1931 does not show one. That is why I'm stuck on what to do with the rack. I would rather not put it on the car.

Here is one of the three Packards restored.

A.J. beautiful picture of the Packard . Would you be going back to the whitewalls like the Packard has ?

I agree the Packard looks pretty good with the whitewalls. But I think it might look good sitting on blacks too! I'm still planning on the blackwalls but I did have the slightest, slightest, slightest second thoughts about it.

I didn't know the same body was used on more cars, but being so gorgeous, I don't see why not. The Packard is great, but the added appartent Hood lenght of the Royale (because of the painted radiator) makes it even nicer. And just for the record, even though the Twenty Grand may be the most famous Club sedan, I still think this Dietrich body is prettier.

Victor, I think you are spot on with your assessment of the Royale's painted radiator shell. It really makes the hood seem longer. I'm fairly certain that the extra 3 inches of wheelbase between the Packard and the Dietrich Royale is in the hood also.

I agree that with the painted radiator shell it makes the hood seem longer .

One of the many small projects that I need to accomplish was to recast the drivers side window crank. It had been replaced by a similar but incorrect crank at some point. I got a an email from Bill yesterday that made me very very happy. He found this in the batch of chrome for his Conv Coupe. It looks like his dad had sent it out with a batch for that car.

That is what you can call Great Luck! Congratulations.

Yesterday I had a rare couple of hours of spare time and pulled my car outside. It is running much better now that the carb has been rebuilt (i.e. disassembled and cleaned). I was particularly interested in the cooling system as I was spitting water when I had last filled it. The good news is that I lost no water running it outside for a solid 20 minutes. I think the fluid loss was from overfill.

On an old car I have the owner's manual states that the radiator should be filled to about 1" or so under the top level. I guess in Reo's case it is the same.

Every time I fill a radiator from an old car (that does not have an additional tank), at the time of turning the engine off, it spills quite a bit of wáter. I do not refill it and next time I use it it works great without spilling when turning it off. My two cents.

I was very excited when Charles Hamilton posted to the Reo Royale thread I created in the AACA forum. Chuck's dad Max owned my car from 1960 to about 1980. Chuck has many fond memories of the car when he was growing up - especially driving it around when his dad was out of town.

So I got the call to bring my car into the restoration shop tomorrow. The shop I use is a friend I've known since I was 16 working as an apprentice in the same place. I'm happy to get some stuff done on one hand but of course writing checks tempers that enthusiasm. We are going to go through the mechanics first and then I'll start thinking about cosmetic issues.

Sounds like a great plan!

Started right up and drove great all the way from my garage to the shop, which is about 300 feet.

No, I started it when it came off the trailer and drove it the 1000 feet or so to my garage. I've started it and backed it out of the garage a few times. Once we rebuilt/cleaned the carb it is running much better. Choked it will start in about 3 or 4 spins. I have about 15 items on the list. When we are done it should be fully sorted for driving and presentable for local shows.

Hi Chuck! Nice to see you here. Chuck's dad Max Hamilton owned the Dietrich from about 1960 into the 1980s. Chuck has many great stories of the car with his dad.

The front end of the Royale is so beautiful that I also agree that it looks better as it was designed: simple but gorgeous!

That is very kind to loan your book .

I have not found an original operators manual for my car yet so I purchased the one that Aurthur Miller (autolit.com) has been advertising on eBay for some time. It is marked as a manual for N1/N2 and stamped REO factory 1951 inside. I assume the factory was continuing to print manuals have car production stopped.

Flipping through it I'm guessing that they didn't change very much from the earlier printing to the last ones. It looks useful. I will continue to look for a 1931 version.

So I went over to the shop at lunch today. Here is an update1. The door handles are all straight now which is nice because it was driving me crazy.2. The thermostat was obviously original and shot, Brian Joseph has them for 375 exchange but I'm not sure mine is exchangeable.3. We are going to remove the wiring harness which is also original and have a new one made.4. The exhaust leak was because of a snapped bolt on a the heat valve that was patched with a radiator hose clamp. That is now fixed.5. New fuel pump is mounted and we are running the lines for a 3lb pass through electric at the gas tank.6. We are pulling the radiator and having it boiled. There is silicon patchwork around upper tube and it looks like it has never been out of the car.7. The rear interior has been removed to fix the rear door latches which are loose and not properly latching the doors.8. The paint company is showing up tomorrow with a 100k color capture tool to match the paint. The colors on the car have metallic and are not the original colors. I'm looking for some original paint somewhere on the car and believe it to be a deep dark red (towards brown) non metallic. For now the car will stay the colors it has.7. I'm looking at replacing all lights with LED conversion kits.

Hey John,

I'm probably going to use them too. There are 3 vendors that all get pretty good reviews. The issue is the dash which is located back about 4 inches further in the chassis because of the longer hood. When I talked to the guys in California, they build their harness to within an inch of tolerance so many of the wires will not reach. I'm removing the harness and shipping it to them so they can take their Victoria spec and lengthen as appropriate.

Hi A.J.

Signed on! So glad this significant Royale is in the hands of a worthy conservator. I'll have more comments about the Dietrich design shortly.

Steve

Nice to have you on board Steve! Looking forward to all your insight on Classics including the Royale.

Went over to the shop at lunch.  Not my first rodeo and I can see where this is heading. 

1.  See my nice straight door handles now.  Make sure your handles are straight or you will have me frowning at your car at some show!

2.  Hoods and radiator shell are off.  Chrome surround from the shell and vent handles are going off to be rechromed.   The inside of the hoods have never been touched which is only good news in the sense I'm going to get a sample of the original paint.  Looks like a reddish brown, or a brownish red, not the bright red the car has now.  It was described as "tomato like red" when it was new but what does that mean?

3.  In the process of disassembling the water pump for rebuild.  It has a sticky spot.

4.  Head does not seem to want to come off.  May require making some brackets for the plug holes and gently pulling and hammering with the engine lift.

5.  Water jackets are messy so covers are coming off.

6.  Getting the paint samples today and we'll do a spray out to see how close.  If the match is good, the fender color is long gone.

So the head that was on the car had a crack along the water inlet on top.  When I bought the car I asked Bill if he would include another head which he graciously did.  I had the new head magnufluxed and plained.  It was off about .010.  Otherwise looks great and ready to go on as soon as we figure out how to get the old one off.

Got a decent match on the body color & fender color. The underneath of the hoods have the original color so I'm getting a good sample for the future full blown restoration. Hoods and radiator shell are going off to be stripped. Fenders will be scuffed and sprayed current body color.

The tensioner was frozen and required a bit of work to free up. Doesn't seem to give you much adjustment.

I guess that pulley is cast? It had to be sent to have that crack welded. 130.00!

We have been dousing the head in penetrating oil for 2 weeks. Heated it, slow pressure from the engine hoist, every thing you can think off. The next thing we are trying is to weld nuts on to the head bolts and try to get them out. If they snap the next step is to drip them out any ways. Have never seen a head so stuck.

The hoods and radiator shell are ready for paint. The fabrication of the sidemount covers will not have to wait for me to get the correct 18 inch wheels as my nice chrome ones are 17 inch.

John has graciously offered me a set of the correct 18 inch wheels which I will send to Dayton to be restored. However I'm going to be needing 6 trim rings if anyone happens to have any spares.

A.J.

A mechanic friend swears by a mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid as the best penetrating oil one can use. I recall that mix was tested against the commercial brands and came out first

Still editing thoughts on Dietrich and the significance of the Sport Sedan style....stand by!

Steve

Steve I have heard of the same mixture also . Mark

Vents are painted, under hood is painted, tomorrow the tops of the hoods. Windshield frame is out to be rechromed as it was the worst piece on the car. Noticed that all brass trim has the number "1984" stamped into it. I assume this is a Dietrich number. What are your thoughts Steve?

Been off the forum for a while. Glad to read of all the progress you are making. I particularly liked to read that you will be painting the fenders in the car's body color. I agree it will look nicer!

Victor

Hi A.J.

I recall reading that full custom bodies typically had all the parts with the same job number noted somewhere on them so they could be identified as they came in. When you have a chance, check the seat frame or any structural wood to see if "1984" appears on them anywhere.

What makes your sport sedan so special is it is one of the earliest conceptually 3-box sedans that began to appear shortly after WWI that had the proportions of a Victoria or Club coupe but with four doors and an integrated trunk. These were the nascent 3-box sedan examples in an era when the 2-box touring sedan dominated. Part of the motivation was people noticed that when the rear seat was moved down off and ahead of the rear axle, the ride improved considerably. Plus it looks so much more elegant than the touring sedan, especially on the long-wheelbase Classics.

The club sedan was a concurrent development and related, became production before the true 3-box arrived. The Dietrich Sport Sedans exampled how good they could look, along with the Duesenberg J Twenty Grand by Rollston. It took a 23 year old Bill Mitchell assigned to come up with a sporty new LaSalle to show all the industry just how fine the concept could be in the '38 Cadillac 60 Special. Then Misterl gave the general buying public it's chance with the 1940 Torpedo C-bodies and it took off. By 1949, the 2-box touring sedan was history.

Its going to look magnificent in the solid dark red with just a few bronze accents!

Steve

Steve: I never welcomed you to the forum as I was off line for a while, but it is great to have a knowledgeable guy like you on board. Thanks for your comments on club sedans... my favorite closed models.

I told A.J. before, but his is one of the greatest closed classics I remember seeing (even compared to the 20 Grand, at least in my own book). The design was gorgeous, and though he has mentioned it was shared with 3 Packards, the Royale looks even nicer for the real added length or the apparent one, with the radiator shell painted. Truly, an outstanding car.

Victor

Steve & Victor, thank you both for your comments. They make me feel better as I'm writing another check to further the progress. I have an obsessive compulsive disorder when working on the cars that things need to be fixed exactly right. That can be extremely dangerous when dealing with a 30 year old restoration that was basically cosmetic to begin with.

Steve, when you say three box, does that refer to the hood, body & trunk as the 3 boxes? I wish I was going full body with the original deep red color but alas that would be biting off more than I can chew right now. We are going to respray the fenders in the current body color which is not that close to the original but much better than the gold which offends my eyes.

Hi A.J.

Fixing things correctly is exactly the right obsessive compulsive disorder to have when it comes to Classic Cars!

There are various ways to definite what comprises the 3-boxes but the one that seems to make the most sense is: box one is the section forward the cowl/windshield line that houses the engine and radiator, box two would be from the cowl/windshield line rearward including the trunk but below the belt-line, the third box is the greenhouse, everything above the belt-line. The best part is when a long-wheelbase Classic is so proportioned is becomes very elegant.

The three Packard 845 Dietrich Newport Sport Sedans are the most desirable of all closed Packards that year, along with similar but not quite 3-box Waterhouse and other custom coach-built examples. Only the various convertible victorias are on par.....in my aesthetic judgment.

Steve

Steve came by our booth at Hershey and introduced himself. I owed him a cup of coffee for that mechanics manual he so generously gave me. We had a great talk. He is working up some drawings for what he thinks the Dietrich 4 door convertible might have looked like on the long wheelbase. As everyone knows there are no pictures of that car. Looking forward to seeing the drawings!

Hi A.J.

It was great meeting you, I really enjoyed our intense automotive discussion......something that I only rarely get to enjoy. I also enjoyed meeting and discussing old cars with your dad. Hershey is the absolute best place for us to have those rare encounters.

My Royale convertible sedan concept drawings are in the development stage, I have about four different versions in mind. Right now, they're rather crude sketches. I'll gin up a good, large profile of your 8-48 for the line drawing layout to do the perfected elevation drawings. That's how custom coachbuilders presented their designs, has to be good enough for me too. So, be patient, and stand by, I promise it'll be worth the wait!

Steve

A restoration update:

1. Wiring harness is almost completely out. There are parts were it is stuck and we are soaking it.

2. Drilling out head bolts one by one to free the head. Most of the center row has now been drilled out. Gone through 7 hardened drills so far.

3. Welding up excess holes in the firewall and then we will repaint gloss black.

4. Water pump finally came apart and a new shaft has been fabricated out of stainless. A new bearing procured.

5. I have decided to pull the generator and starter out and have them rebuilt while everything is apart.

6. Built a wood frame for the windshield frame so that the chrome process doesn't distort it.

7. Got the throttle and headlight levers out of the steering wheel and sent off to be re-chromed.

8. Mulling pulling the dash out and completely restoring it.

Congratulations! I am envious! Can't wait to see a pic of the car out again with it's new red monotone image with copper mouldings... which is how I understood you will be doing it. It will be stunning!

Victor, I think the correct 18 inch wheels, painted with blackwalls will also improve the appearance. I'm sure that I'm going to end up painting so much of the car that I should have started with the original red instead of the current color.

Wheels painted in red? Copper? Anyway, it will look stunning.

The original color was a darker red so I was thinking about that for the wheels. I'm open to suggestions. The only color I have ever painted wheels was black but I'm not sure that would work here.

Sorry I wasn't clear with the question... yes, that is what I was meaning to ask when I said red... I meant body color dark red, or trim color, copper.

Thanks for asking but I don't know what to say...I honestly couldn't be sure which would look better, but personally, I think I would go for the body color.... but since the car will be almost monotone, and with blackwalls, it will look probably a bit to sober. Being yourself an avid and knowledgeable computer guy, and since you already did that modified pic at the beggining of the thread in which you removed the trunk rack and 'added' blackwalls... perhaps it would be a good idea to use that same pic adding body color to the fenders... and then it will probably be a bit easier for you to decide on wheel color.

On such an important car, I would certainly consider chrome wheels also, though I am no true fan of them... but if you look at the Packard Dietrich at the first page of your thread, the black and white pic, it would appear to have chrome wheels... and the restored Packard looks gorgeous on chromed wheels, plus on your car it would really set the blackwalls apart.

Tough choice!

Hi

My two cents too: painted wires and blackwalls with simply trim rings and hubcaps look not only subtly elegant but very period correct as well. Chromed wires and blackwalls have a purposeful sporty look but have to be hideously difficult to maintain looking good. Its doubtful many buyers opted for chrome wires in the period......perhaps a convertible coupe owner or two.

Take a look at page four of the REO Marksman with "First Glimpses of Reo-Royale in The Public Eye". In the lower half, a sedan is shown on the football field with what look to be chrome disk with some body color rings and blackwalls, the sidemount covers fully chromed. Were those disk wheels optional? Has anyone seen them on another Royale in period photos or have a car with them now? Packard offered chrome disks in that period so they weren't unknown then.

Steve

I agree that body color wheels with a chrome snap ring would look great (particularly on darker colors and more so with blackwalls).I have only one pic of an original car with chrome discs... I am not really too fond of them. By the way,, the Price list does not list them as optional, and it does list the wooden wheels and the stainless Steel spoke wheels.Yes, Packard offered the chrome discs. I have been after a 1930 840 roadster almost forever, which has them, owned by a good friend of mine. By the way, I bought my 1933 1001 convertible coupe from his brother, which had painted wheels in dark green and I added the chrome trim ring... They look good, and will look better once I switch to blackwalls... if I ever get to that.Victor

Good job Victor posting that picture and price list. I mentioned both to Steve in the Marksmen thread.

I'm may try a few spray outs on the wheels to see what they might look like before deciding. Historically my dad and I always went chrome but I have become much more conservative in my old age.

Head is finally off. Welding nuts on to the studs got a bunch of them out. We had to drill the whole middle row.

I working on finding a head gasket. If I have to have one made I'll look at getting a bunch made so anyone that wants one can have it.

Firewall is finally ready for paint. I know that they are usually black but there was traces of body color under the mess so I think I'll go with that.

Hi A.J.

The firewall color might have been black on factory-bodied cars but custom coachbuilder usually finished the cowl to match the main body color. That appears to have been common practice unless the car had an aluminum cowl which they preferred to leave unpainted.

I'm so glad you have this REO Royale Dietrich, you're giving it the care and restoration it richly deserves! When it's finished, I'm driving out your way just to see it in person!

Steve

John, you called it. no edge at all. Good idea on the valves. I'll tell them tomorrow.

Steve, thanks for the insight. I'm usually a stickler for factory but on a custom body sometimes that is hard to figure out.

Fenders are off and being sent to be stripped. Drums are being turned, new brake shoes, rebuilt brake cylinders, new brake hoses being fabricated, replacing all the brake lines, on and on and on...

Hi A.J.

Great progress! Looks as if the splash apron will need a little metal work too, no time like the present to correct those problems. Rebuilding the brake systems is the first thing to do after determining how well a car runs (at lower, careful speeds, of course). You're correcting years of deferred maintenance and outright neglect and the result is going to look magnificent and be magnificent!

Steve

Steve,So we found something interesting. There is original red paint everywhere. And by everywhere I mean everywhere. The chassis, axles, backing plates, idler arm, fenders, splash pan, etc were all painted red. The color is basically the same as the body minus the metallic. I'm having the guys come in with the spectrograph and we'll try to get a paint code. I'm not fan of body color on the chassis so we'll repaint all that stuff in black. I was happy to find body color on the fenders. I'm wondering if it started off all one color and they decided it wasn't flashy enough so changed the fender color. The fenders have never been off the car, in fact as far as we can tell other than some cosmetic stuff it really has not been touched underneath.

Here are some shots of the chassis. I took a bunch of pictures for documentation sake. Maybe somebody else one day will want to change it back to everything red.

Hi A.J.

I've read that the chassis color matching the body wasn't uncommon on full custom-bodied cars. Packard would finish the Custom and Deluxe Series cars to customer specification if so ordered. Is it possible your Dietrich was built for the car shows and in order to heighten it's appeal, they finished the chassis to match? You need to submit this question of chassis color matching or complimenting the body color to those more knowledgeable on the CCCA Forum. Definitely there are some members there who can enlarge on this Classic Era practice.

Steve

Here is the restored light switch that goes on the end of the steering wheel.  None of the contacts were touching so it didn't work.

A.J. I am very interested in the work you are doing on your car . As you know I am doing the same work here in Canada on my 8 -31 . When you you did your restoration on your light switch on the end of the steering wheel . What material did they sandblast the case with ? I have heard 3M has a good product to do this type of work . I would appreciate any more pictures of this detail on how to hook up the light switch . As mine is sitting in a box with no linkages or sketches on how to hook it up . It looks brand new .

My car frame looks a lot like yours . Badly rusted and pitted at the front of the car . I had mine sandblasted and body filled . Then 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of finish paint on the frame . They also put it in a paint oven to bake the paint .

Hi A.J.

I've read that the chassis color matching the body wasn't uncommon on full custom-bodied cars. Packard would finish the Custom and Deluxe Series cars to customer specification if so ordered. Is it possible your Dietrich was built for the car shows and in order to heighten it's appeal, they finished the chassis to match? You need to submit this question of chassis color matching or complimenting the body color to those more knowledgeable on the CCCA Forum. Definitely there are some members there who can enlarge on this Classic Era practice.

Steve

Just a small note.... Packard did offer the option of having a chassis painted any color. In my particular case, I have a 1933 1001 Eight convertible coupe (that is the small Packard in that era) which apparently was one of the showroom cars in the Packard Motor Company distributor in New York... and even though it was the smaller Eight, the car was fitted with most options available, including having the chassis in body color, which was silver, so the chassis was also done in silver. I guess it was an "In" thing, on fancier cars and my little car got it because of being a showroom car.

I don't see why not your Custom built car could have been treated the same way. After all, in an era of early streamlining and integrating more the car's components (even the two tone cars were becomming a bit old fashioned), a monotone car with a similarly painted chassis would surely be striking. My two cents.

Your car is stunning, and it will be anyway you do it! But as you can see, and I am sorry if I seem a bit intense, I certainly can't hide my liking of a monotone car with the copper accents on trim.

victor

Mark,

I'll ask the guys what they used on the light switch. I think there are some very good pictures of the lower steering column on Victor's CD. If not I will take some when the assembly goes back together.

Victor,

I' was so happy to find that red paint on the fenders. I was going to paint them body color anyways but this makes me feel better as I tend to want things the way they were originally. I'll need to decide what to do with the accents. I have not found a good sample of the trim color yet - just a lot of red.

Here are the restored dash knobs. I had them re-engraved and polished.

Looks great! Your car is going to be stunning!

Here are a couple of pictures from today. We are starting to go in the other direction finally. Chassis has been wire brushed and the right side has been painted in a flat black. The original color was body colored but I'm not a big fan of that. The tie-rod ends have been sent out, new bearings for the king pins, the rebuilt water pump (new stainless shaft & bearings) installed. We built a wood frame for the windshield trim and that and the windshield frame have been sent out for chrome. That was the worst chrome on the car and probably original. My dad found 4 NOS brake lines that match the original ones exactly. Also, a NOS piston insert for the master cylinder which is identical to Duesenberg. You can find other parts to rebuild the master cylinder here:http://www.classicandexotic.com/store/c-11-lockheed-brake-master-cylinder.aspx

So I got lucky on one thing this week. The ball for the pitman arm is supposed to be round but mine looked like a football. My dad went through his stuff and found an NOS Auburn one that is an exact match. I'm sure both companies were buying from the same 3rd party supplier.

Chassis is now all painted. One of the kids spent two days under the car with a wire brush. Spread it a satin black. It came out pretty good.

Reassembling the chassis and suspension.  I'm having new tie-rod ends manufactured.  I asked the guy to give me a price if somebody else wants a set.

Brakes are almost done:1. Guts of the Master cylinder are now NOS2. New brake lines3. New brake hoses4. Rebuilt wheel cylinders.5. New shoes6. Drums turned.

John, stupid money. 351.00 a piece. I don't really have much choice because mine are junk. I have notes that Alden Thomas wrote to his restorer in 1983 asking him what they can do about the front end because the tie-rod ends are loose. Looks like he never did anything!

My dad told me that 10 years ago a guy had a NOS set for 8 cylinder Auburn that he wanted 500.00 for. That made me feel a little better. If there is a cross over to something that is still being made that will work that would save a ton of money. I just don't know what that is.

We got some paint on one of the correct 18 inch wheels John sold me.   Not sure on the color yet.   Those are the brand new tie-rod ends I had made.  Will post in the technical section if anyone wants to buy a pair.

My radiator came back from the shop today, new core, repaired tanks, pressure tested, etc. 1600.00. I was surprised by the cost. I must be paying Massachusetts prices.

Latest engine shot.

And the other side.

Restored instruments. Ones on top were wiped clean and thats it, ones on the bottom required some work. Clock was rebuilt and runs like a top now.

Hi A.J.

The Dietrich looked and sounded good in your video, can't wait to see how great it is when completed!

Steve

Hi Steve, yeah, it actually ran pretty good but we needed to rebuild all the accessories and replace the head as it was cracked. Have not fired it back up again. I'll have to get some progress pics shortly and post them.

Here is a side by side with the 845 Packard that has the identical body. I didn't have a clear side shot of the Royale so I'm wondering if there is some distortion throwing things off. The Royale has 3 inches further of wheelbase which I believe is in the hoods or cowl. Also, the tail looks longer on the Royale but that could be the picture. When the car was restored in the 1980s they screwed up re-arching the rear spings and the back of the car is 6 inches higher than it is supposed to be.Also, I'm wondering if the the Royale has the front of the radiator set back a bit further than the Packard.

Hi AJ

Interesting comparison! When you have the Royale done and can set up a photo session, perhaps coordinating with the Packard Dietrich owner to do the same to get the exact same positions for photos so the two can be closely compared would be an interesting project. The Classic Car editor would probably love to run that as a feature. Although the two cars are three thousand mile apart, this internet makes that type of project much easier.

Steve

Hi A.J.:

Not only the tail appears to be longer (and more graceful) on your Royale, but also one curious thing is that the Packard's radiator is almost directly over the front axle, while the one on the Royale seems to be several inches behind it. Both cars are majestic, but I really prefer the Royale for it's loner chassis, painted aerodynamic radiator shell and a the moulding on the bottom of the body (under the doors) that adds a bit more character, particularly with a contrasting tone or pinstripe, which the Packard apparently lacks (more easy to view in the black and white pics you posted originally of the design, than in the pic just posted, as it is very dark to see).

victor

I went down the shop yesterday and they had re-installed the rear springs. We had sent them out to be de-arched. They took 5 inches out of them and it dropped the rear of the car 5-6 inches, and probably another 1 when we get the weight back in it. Huge difference. If you look back at the pictures you can see how up hill the back end was. The sill line on the window now will be just about level, maybe a very slight tail down towards the back. I should have taken a picture.

Progress is being made, car is back down on its rear axle, we lowered the back of the car almost 8 inches and the running board is now parallel with the ground. I sent the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel out to be rebuilt and those came back. They looked to be original before we sent them out. Not much left to the clutch.

That is quite a job just to remove these from the car A.J. Did your shop rebuild them or did you have to send them out ?

Yes, the transmission needed to be dropped out. I wanted them to disassemble it anyways and make sure it was ok. Now is the time. One project that has been taking forever is replacing the motor mounts. The original rubber looks like it has welded itself to the steel.

We sent the stuff to a guy in Boston that specializes in clutches.

The latch mechanisms are now in the door jambs and the doors latch really nicely. I lucked out again as it seems that Dietrich and Murphy used the same latches. The shop had a bunch of new latches from a Murphy Duesenberg that were identical. I think I said this before but every trim piece is stamped with 1984 on the back.

So disassembling the transmission we found 2 gears with broken teeth. Since this is the 4 speed transmission I assume everything about it is made of unobtanium. The good news is the local gear manufacturer make both of them for 1200.00 bucks. I was definitely bracing for news much worse than that.

Yes A.J. you still have a sense of humour with some of the headaches you have run into on your restoration . It will be a first class restoration I know that for sure .

I guess I just see it as par for the course. Anytime you are thorough you find stuff - it is inevitable with a prewar car. Also, most "restorations" do not do a good job on the underlying mechanics or hard stuff (like wiring) because it is so expensive. Yes you may get a rebuilt motor but did they also go through the transmission and rear end? All the bearings replaced? etc...

When this car was restored in the 1980s, they did paint, interior, a bit of the chrome and the engine. Nothing else. And the paint work was not exactly what I would call high quality.

Here is the transmission

Somebody has put a pencil inside the rod case that moves the gears, ostensibly to keep the ball spring in place. Some great restoration work!

Here is the distributor with the brandy new points in it.

Someone with a vey good memory must be working on that transmission ! ! What restorer put the pencil in there ? Was it done in the 1960 's restoration ?

I don't think it could have been done in the 60s because the car was driven 10k miles after that. Can't imagine the pencil would have held out that long. I'm guessing that was an 80s feature.

They won't have any trouble putting the transmission back together, those guys have done dozens of them.

So here are some transmission pictures.  One shows the busted 2nd gear.  Cost to re-fabricate one is of course not cheap but it should be done very soon ... hopefully.   Shot of the new bearings in the transmission. 

Here is the repaired heater valve on the exhaust. It was quite a mess before, both frozen and leaking.

It was inevitable I guess John. The body was actually unbolted and suspended 6 inches over the chassis so I guess you could call it body off. Just enough to clean and paint the chassis.

Here is a good shot of the color, this is the frame cover that slides under the body above the running board.   It is darker than John's blue but similar.   I chose it because it works with the red interior.  I'll run a red pin stripe down the molding and the wheels will either be red, chrome or body color with black tires.

Looking great, A.J., congratulations! And quite a surprise, as I thought you were going by that original description of how it was done originally. I am sure it will look stunning in blue. I love the color. In fact, it resembles the small remains my car has of it's original color.victor

Victor, that makes me happy. I wanted a period color but could not paint the car the original red. I agonized over it but all I could think of was constantly explaining that incredibly it was the original color.

Ha! Well, with the very nice shade of blue you chose, very period correct, no explanations will be needed and the car will be absolutely stunning! congratulations!

So I have figured out how to embed video so I thought I would put this here.

I am glad you got the video on this site . That elegant and beautiful car needs to be shown off

Body will be painted next week. Fenders, trunk, splash pan, rockers, etc are already in paint.

Generator and starter are back from the electrical shop. You can see they do a nice job and have all the equipment to fully test. Of course the bill was twice what I paid for the 69 GTO convertible I bought in high school.

Body is in paint. Interior is going back in.  Red on blue looks pretty good.

It is comming along great! Congratulations!

And the trunk and rear fenders are on.

A.J. did you completely drop the colour scheme that was on the car when you bought it ? Was the colour you are painting it now also an option or did you just pick a colour you liked ? What colour is it now /

Mark, the colors when I got the car were neither original nor correct for the period (metallic). It was originally a deep tomato red, chassis, fenders, suspension, etc. As a general rule I will always paint a car its original color. But I really don't like red on a prewar car and especially on the chassis, etc. The color is a deep non-metallic blue which will work with the existing red interior and is period correct. Since this was a show car originally I felt that I could deviate from the standard Royale palate.

From last month.

Wow! It is comming along great! Congratulations A.J.!

I am sure 2016 will be it's year!

Believe it or not the two things that bugged me most when I got the car was the dash (which was a mess) and the steering wheel levers. The issue with the levers was simply the original chrome was long gone. My steering wheel was not bad but did have some hairline cracks. The steering gears had some burrs and we pressed in some new bearings. Here is the whole thing cleaned up and painted.

That is excellent A.J. . Gives me some hope for my steering wheel . Could you take some detailed pictures of how the light switch attaches to the bottom of the steering gear please . As mine is in a box in pieces . Also the other linkages that run down the inside of the steering wheel and come out the bottom .

Amazingly I had this picture in my files from years ago and never noticed them. Taken in 1959 in Avon Penn. This is prior to Max Hamilton's purchase in 1961 and subsequent restoration.

Good looking car . I am glad you A. J.were able to purchase this car and have the means to restore it to it's former beauty .

Here is the front view taken at the same time. The interesting things I took from these photos:1. Shutters were painted black.2. No trunk rack.3. Fenders body color (which is what we found when we stripped) as opposed to trim color as described in 31 magazine article.4. 18 inch painted wheels. 17 inch must have been swapped in by Max in 61.

John, it is a single trippe light. You will need to log in to your account to see the full size picture. As a guest you can't view the full picture. I will email to you.

I'm restoring it with the horn inside the engine compartment as I agree with you.

I hadn't seen that pic from behind in the prior page... I also agree with you and John about the trunk rack... it was a wise decission to remove it as the rear end is really gorgeous!

From Victor out of the CCCA magazine.

Here are my new exhaust and intake manifolds. Couple of small cracks to fix and both decked (Thanks Mark & John!).

It is a high temp stove paint.

Did you soda blast it before you had it repainted ? I thought there was a porcelain coating on those manifolds ? When I looked at some of those pictures of Royale Convertibles at some of those judging meets on the internet .

Mark,

Exhaust manifolds are a problem in general. Yes, they are supposed to be porcelain but mine are sand blasted and painted with hi-temp stove paint. We have had luck in the past doing it this way.

Here is a picture of the 845 Packard with the same Dietrich body in the Nethercutt collection (which is a must see).

And another.

So A.J. your Royale and this Packard are the only two cars left with this style body ?

Dietrich built 4 bodies, 3 went on Packards and 1 on the Royale. All three Packards are known to exist. Besides the one I just pictured ad the Nethercutt, one is restored and is in California, the other is unrestored and in Michigan.

The car in the Nethercutt is also pictured in a 1931 issue of AutoBody magazine and was owned for years by Bill Harrah. It was purchased at one of the big Harrah auctions in the early 80s by J.B. Nethercutt.

Btw, everybody who knew J.B. and his wife says they were great people. The museum is awesome. Anybody can get in to the bigger building where the Packard was, but you must call and reserve a spot on a tour of the Salon.

The Netercutt, just as A.J. points out, is a "must see". Unfortunately, when I was there a few years ago, I didn't know about the need to make an appointment for the Salon tour. Anyhow, the big building has very impressive cars also. Fantastic place! And great people. I asked the curator to allow me to see a 1941 Packard Lebaron Sport Brougham, of which I have one, and he was very kind and showed me the car in great detail and allowed me to take tons of pics.The only drawback with the big building is they have such a tremendous amount of cars and not enough space, so on some really great designs, you cannot even take a full pic of the car. That is what happened to me with the Dietrich Packard that has the same body as A.J.'s Royale... Here are my pics.

And the final pic.... you can see I really suffered to try to get the car's rear end. Gorgeous design, but the car could be enjoyed a lot more given a bit more space. After all, it's best angle includes the side view on my opinion, to show off the huge hood and beautiful integrated trunk.By the way, I really never noticed it was the same design as A.J. just made us note.... and back then, 2009, I didn't even know about his Royale. Truly, in my opinion, one of the greatest sedan designs of the classic era.

This would be the design from a side view... a pic A.J. posted some time ago...

I had to get one of my other cars out so I pushed the Royale out in to the driveway. The short block is almost done and I was able to find two more rims to make 6 good 18 inch wheels out of the 8 I have now.

My engine came back today. For something that ran great I was shocked at how much work had to be done. There were 3 bent rods, 3 stuck valves, we had to deck the block to get it straight. I had new pistons made, etc, etc.

Hey Tim,

Gasket set is working great. Everybody with a Royale needs to buy one. Engine is just about ready to go back in car.

Almost ready to go in.

That engine looks fantastic A.J. ! !

Wow. 10 years since the last post. I will be starting a Pebble Beach thread (Assuming we are accepted). Car is 90% done. These things take time! here is a recent picture.

Here ia rear view.

Posted this over in the Pebble thread but here is where we are on status:

1. The car is fully painted with the exception of the battery box which needs to be repainted.
2. Everything but the right front fender is bolted to the car and fits. This fender requires the batter box.
3. The car starts (roughly) and we backed it up off the lift where it has been for 5 years to get the pictures in the first post.
4. All electrical from the dash to back of car is tested and works.
5. All the gauges includes the stupid King Seeley gas gauge work. There is a king sealy for the oil also that works.
6. Left headlight works. Right is not installed.
7. 95% of the interior is installed and finished. We still have some trim to get done.

Next week it will be 80 degrees on Tuesday. We are going to take the opportunity to heat a tire or two and try to get them mounted. In meantime we figure we should try the hubcaps as they had never been mounted on the restored original wheels. They came off the 17" wires but I was worried. The good news is they are correct for the original wheels. The bad news is they have too much copper from the plating process and they won't fit. So each cap has to have the clips removed and taped up and the extra copper removed until it fits. Guys wonder why restorations are so expensive? How many hours to fit restored caps to restored wheels?

So the battery box was the last part of the car to be painted. It actually had to be repainted because we messed it up fitting the fender. Originally I had the car setup with dual Optima batteries. I have become sour with them and have reverted back to standard lead acid. This battery has 800 cranking amps which should be plenty. The next size up battery would have required moving the disconnect switch. I may still do that if this battery seem inadequate.

What a great project!